Monday, July 27, 2015

Ami Magazine "Paskens" It's Assur To Oppose Same Sex "Marriage"

If you have a subscription to Ami magazine, cancel it at subscriptions@amimagazine.org and make sure to let them know why, if not email them at info@amimagazine.org, or editorial@amimagazine.org and let them know you will no longer buy their magazine because they support apikorsus!

By "Rabbi" Yitzchok Frankfurter of Ami Magazine? (with our editorial in highlights)



The recent ruling of the United States Supreme Court, which not only legitimizes abominable behavior but also impinges upon freedom of conscience and religion, has triggered much foreboding among devout people.

So this is a evil decision and one that can put Jews in danger of being persecuted against for following the Torah!


In the Orthodox Jewish community, it left the commentators either mute or uncharacteristically explicit in their analyses and condemnation. While some have mostly chosen to ignore the topic, others have been far from quiet. Time-honored traditions such as employing lashon nekiyah (clean speech) to avoid indelicate formulations (see Pesachim 3b), especially in front of impressionable children, 
The gemara in psachim is very clear that sometime you are required to not use a lashon nekiyah, especially if someone may make a mistake in halacha based on using less clear language, kal vechomer in our case where not talking about it leads one to do millions of averahs   

as well as respect for our host country, were set aside and replaced by unusually shrill denunciations of the Court for the immorality and irrationality of the justices’ reasoning.

Our country was founded upon the Constitution the allegiance of Americans (after God of course) must always be first and foremost to the Constitution, not the President, Supreme Court, or Congress.  To not accept the 10th amendment which gives marriage exclusively to the states, is to spit in the face of our host country.  It's bad enough that we had 3 Jewish judges on the court who rebeled against America by interpreting the Constitution against all it's framers, but we as loyal American Jews should not join the rebellion of against America (and worse God) !

It's important to stress that not a single person (of the 1000's) who wrote and voted on the 14th amendment, would agree with the court's interpretation of the 14th amendment!


Paradoxically, the United States Constitution, which is the first“G-dless” constitution in history, having made no mention of G-d or any dominant religion, is what has enabled G-dliness to flourish in
this country.

But the founding document of this nation the Declaration of Independence does, and using a term that clearly goes against the very concept of same sex "marriage".
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation
Declaration of Independence
Furthermore one of the main influences of the Constitution, President John Adams makes it very clear that he believes that the Constitution can only function in a religious environment!

While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. 
Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.  
Oaths in this country are as yet universally considered as sacred obligations. That which you have taken, and so solemnly repeated on that venerable ground, is an ample pledge of your sincerity and devotion to your country and its government.
  • Letter to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, 11 October 1798, in Revolutionary Services and Civil Life of General William Hull (New York, 1848)
Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, They may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty. They will only exchange Tyrants and Tyrannies.


That the Constitution has also made it permissible to engage in idol worship as well as almost every deviant behavior under the sun is one of its unfortunate fallouts.

The Constitution allows states to ban homosexual behavior, which is why all states banned homosexual behavior for much of this nation's history.  The supreme court ruled less then 15 years ago that homosexual behavior is a "constitutional right", in another decsion that goes against the Constitution 


Still, Orthodox Jews have always thanked G-d for the strict wall of separation between church and state the Constitution erected—and with valid reason.

Would you say that regarding for $$$$ for Yeshivas?
because that  interpretation at least has some Constitutional basis.  Furthermore there are purely secular reasons to be against homosexuality, which is why even the atheistic USSR still was against homosexuality.

a few secular reason to be against homosexuality 

  1. In 2013, 75% of the reported P&S syphilis cases were among men who have sex with men 
  2. In 2013, in the United States, gay and bisexual men accounted for 81% (30,689) of the 37,887 estimated HIV diagnoses among all males aged 13 years and older.
  3. Since sheshes yimai birashis 0.00000000etc% of same sex couples had a child together

It is widely held that there is no halachic obligation to dissuade a non-Jew from transgressing any one of the seven commandments that are binding on Noahides.

The Tosfos YT strongly thinks there is based on the words of the Rambam 
תוספות יום טוב מסכת אבות פרק ג משנה יד

חביב אדם שנברא בצלם חבה יתירה וכו' שנאמר בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם - פירש"י 
חביב אדם שנברא בצלם. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו. ע"כ. ובכל אדם אמר 
ר"ע. וכמו שהוא הראיה שממנו הביא שהוא נאמר לבני נח לא לבני ישראל לבדם 
ורצה ר"ע לזכות את כל אדם אף לבני נח. ומאמר מלא אמר הרמב"ם בפ"ח מהלכות 
מלכים [הלכה י']. וז"ל צוה משה רבינו ע"ה מפי הגבורה לכוף את כל באי העולם 
לקבל מצות שנצטוו בני נח. וכל מי שלא יקבל יהרג והמקבל אותם הוא הנקרא גר 
תושב בכ"מ וכו' כל המקבל שבע מצות ונזהר לעשותן. הרי זה מחסידי אומות העולם 
ויש לו חלק לעוה"ב. והוא שיקבל אותן ויעשה אותן. מפני שצוה בהן הקדוש ברוך 
הוא בתורה. והודיענו ע"י מרע"ה שבני נח מקודם נצטוו בהן. אבל אם עשאן מפני 
הכרע הדעת אין זה גר תושב ואינו מחסידי אומות העולם. ולא [צ"ל אלא] 
מחכמיהם. עכ"ל. ומעתה אני תמה למה זה רחקה הדרך מן המפרשים ולא רצו ללכת בה 
לפרש דברי ר"ע שאמר מאמרו כלפי כל אדם כי אם לישראל בלבד. ונסמכו במאמרם 
ז"ל אתם קרויים אדם וכו' והרי זה דרש על דרש. ובזה נכנסו בדוחק ענין הצלם. 
ובפי' הכתוב שהביא לראיה. אבל בעיני זו הדרך דרך סלולה ומרווחת כי בא ר"ע 
להיישיר לכל באי עולם כאשר נצטוינו מפי מרע"ה כדברי הרמב"ם. ואם בכפיית חרב 
הרג ואבדן נצטוינו כ"ש בכפיית דברים. להמשיך לבם אל רצון קונם וחפץ צורם. 
יזכרם לטובה. ושהם חביבים שנבראו בצלם להורות נתן בלבם. כי זאת תורת האדם 
לעשות חוקי אלהים ומשפטיו מצד אשר הוא צוה כדברי הרמב"ם דהואיל שחבבו לבראו 
בצלמו. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו כפירש"י. והשתא אתי שפיר דנקט להך 
קרא. אף על פי שיש כמה מקראות הקודמים אליו שנאמר נעשה אדם בצלמנו. אבל זה 
המקרא הוא שנאמר גבי המצות שנצטוו בהם. לכך הביא לזה הכתוב שכן אמרו הש"י 
בטעם המצוה אשר צוה אותם כי בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם ולבני נח נאמר הכתוב. 
ולבני נח אמר ר"ע דבריו הללו. ואתי נמי שפיר שאמר שנברא בצלם. וחסר הנסמך 
שהוא אלהים הנאמר בכתוב. ואילו גבי בנים אמר שנקראו בנים למקום. והיינו 
טעמא שזו ג"כ מדברי התוכחה להוכיחם ולומר שהם נבראו בצלם ובאיזה צלם נבראו 
בצלם אלהים כאומר שהבריאה היתה בצלם אלהים אבל הואיל ואינם מקיימים מצותיו 
ואף על פי שאם מקיימים אינם מקיימים מפני אשר צוה אותם אלהים. הנה הם חסרים 
באמת מידיעת אלהים והכתוב שאומר בצלם אלהים עשה לומר שכן נבראו כלומר שהיא 
היתה כונת הבריאה באדם שיהא לו השגה שכלית מגעת לידיעת אלהים. אבל לפי 
שבאמת לא ידעו ולא יבינו ובחשיכה יתהלכו ולא יצאה הכונה אל הפועל מן הראוי 
שיאמר שנבראו בצלם. ולא בצלם אלהים אחרי שהכונה שהיא השגת אלהים לא נשלמה. 
ואין בהם אלא הכנה בלבד. ואותה ראוי להקרא צלם בלתי הנסמך שהוא אלהים. זה 
נראה לי בפי' מאמר ר"ע. ולפי זה מדוקדק יפה המשנה שאחר זו הכל צפוי וכו' 
כמו שאבאר שם בס"ד. ועוד שגם בזה יש ג"כ חבה יתירה נודעת בישראל שאע"פ שכבר 
חבבם כמו לכל אדם בצלם אלהים אשר עשהו בו. אעפ"כ לא זז מחבבן עוד ביתר שאת 
ויתר עז שנקראו בנים למקום. וזה שאת ומעלה יתירה. ובכלי חמדה היא התורה אשר 
נתן להם. וזהו עוז. כענין שנאמר (תהלים כ"ט) ה' עוז לעמו יתן. [שדרשוהו ז"ל 
בפרק פרת חטאת [בזבחים דף קט"ז] על התורה]:
שנאמר בנים אתם לה' אלהיכם - ולא הביא מקרא (שמות ד') בני בכורי ישראל שהוא 
קודם. לפי שאותו מקרא אפשר לפרשו על אותו הדור בלבד שרצה להוציאם ממצרים הם 
שחבבם להוציאם ממצרים וקראם בני. ומנלן לדורות הבאים. לכך הביא זה המקרא. 
שנאמר אצל מצות שנצטוינו בה לדורי דורות עד עולם חוק ולא יעבור לא תתגודדו 
וגו' שהם חובות הגוף הנוהגים בכל מקום ובכל דור ודור. וקראם בנים. כך נ"ל. 
ובמדרש שמואל פי' בשם החסיד ז"ל שלכך הביא זה המקרא לפי שבו הודיע לישראל 
בעצמם שהם בנים. כמ"ש בנים אתם וגו'. וכן לעיל בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם 
הודיע לבני האדם בעצמם. וכן לקמן בלקח טוב נתתי לכם ע"כ. וזה יצדק לפי' 
הרמב"ם בחבה יתירה נודעת. אבל לפי' הר"ב דלא דייק נודעת להם. אלא נודעת 
כלומר גלויה לכל. אין הראיה מצד שנאמר להם אלא שנגלה ומפורסם לכל באי עולם 
יצדק יותר מה שפירשתי:



None of the commandments designed to deter a Jew from sinning (except for the prohibition of “lifnei iveir,” where one assists a Noahide to violate a Noahide law) is generally thought to apply to Noahides.

Voting for candidates that support breaking the sheva mitzvos is lifnay iver.  Furthermore many if not most poskim hold there is lifnei dilinfay for Benay Noach, meaning that voting for these candidates have a tremendous number of averas in 1 second.  Believe it or not many Jews live America and are going to sin based on these laws (including those who consider themselves Orthodox).  As a side note if God decides to punish America because of these laws, we will also be punished (oy lirasha, oy lishchana).


The beis hamikdash was destroyed because we did not go lifnim mishuras hadin.  Based on many chazals it's clear that Jews are judged based on the behaviors of goyim when we can have influence.  In fact as the Radak writes in Yeshaya the reason we are called a Ohr Ligoyim is precisely because we should try and get the whole world to follow the 7 mitzvos and act in a proper matter. 

We must always remember the reason that God Choose Avraham is precisely because he stood up to the entire world and fought for God's Law, against all odds! If he was living today he would have said (and acted on such) that Jews should have been the leading advocates against homosexuality in general and especially "marriage".

Even Noach who was held accountable for not fighting against the world, would have never written anything as bad as this article (if he did so he would never even been called tzadik).

We know from Vayikra Rabbah (Achrai Mos) that gay and lesbian "Weddings" are what caused the mabul. (This is why the rainbow flag is so apropos)

Noach was punished because he didn't try to change his generation, Avraham was rewarded because he tried and did change his.

According to the psak of the Rambam (his definition of the mitzva of Din) every single Ben Noach in America is supposed to vote against pro LGBT politicians.

If that is the basic standard for non jews, the Jewish community must go way above and beyond that.

The fact that the Jewish community is not seen by the entire world, as the leading opponents of this movement, is in itself an unfortunate statement of how low we have fallen in our galus.

We are supposed to be Benay Avraham, Even the Orthodox Community is failing the responsibilities to act in a way that would be proper for a Benay Noach



Thus there is no obligation of tochachah (rebuke) with regard to a non-Jew who sins, no notion of areivus that compels collective responsibility.

But there is still a notion, The fact that 2 out of 12 of the trey asar nevim were "exclusively" for non jews should be proof enough!


And most certainly, when there is no prospect of that person, even a Jew, accepting the rebuke, halachah considers it counterproductive to chastise him.

This is only true in limited cases, Furthermore there is a difference between giving rebuke and trying to change laws


This does not mean that the framers of the Constitution were secular-minded people. Benjamin Franklin, a prominent leader at the Constitutional Convention, stated that he had “so much faith in the general government of the world by Providence that [he could] hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent and beneficent Ruler, in whom all inferior spirits live and move and have their being.”

Yet ironically, that “omnipotent, omnipresent and beneficent Ruler” conceived the Constitution without ever openly revealing Himself in it—and we should be grateful to Him for that. Other wise, any religious worship aside from Christianity might eventually have been outlawed or curtailed.

Only in your imagination!

The animated responses of a number of Orthodox commentators to the Supreme Court ruling reveal that the contemporary exilic consciousness in America, which does not share features of the old paradigm such as persecution, exclusion and alienation, is slowly starting to fade even among the devout. This repudiation of the exile mentality permeates the ferocious verbal attacks against our host country.

The attacks were not against our host country but the 5 members of the Supreme Court of which majority of them were Jewish.  Those justices overruled millions of voters throughout the country, who chose to follow God's laws as opposed to the so called "rabbi".  

Viewing the Constitution that affords them the freedom to be Jews almost as if it were a Jewish document, they are highly disturbed when the Supreme Court justices dare to interpret the Constitution from a different perspective, i.e., as if it were religiously neutral.

For the 1st hundred years no one, including the writers ever dreamt that the 14th amendment meant "that 2 men have the right to "marry" each other. The only way to get that "law" into the constitution would be to make a drasha, in fact the following dissent reads very well about this decision if you change Due Process to Equality.

A Talmudic maxim instructs with respect to the Scripture: "Turn it over, and turn it over, for all is therein." The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Aboth, Ch. V, Mishnah 22 (I. Epstein ed. 1935). Divinely inspired text may contain the answers to all earthly questions, but the Due Process Clause most assuredly does not. The Court today continues its quixotic quest to right all wrongs and repair all imperfections through the Constitution. Alas, the quest cannot succeed--which is why some wrongs and imperfections have been called nonjusticiable. In the best of all possible worlds, should judges sometimes recuse even where the clear commands of our prior due process law do not require it? Undoubtedly. The relevant question, however, is whether we do more good than harm by seeking to correct this imperfection through expansion of our constitutional mandate in a manner ungoverned by any discernable rule. The answer is obvious.
  •  Anthony Scalia in CAPERTON ET AL. v. A. T. MASSEY COAL CO., INC.



Many years ago Rav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l, wrote a letter to encourage the Jewish community to participate in the democratic process and vote: “A fundamental principle of Judaism is hakams hatov, recognizing benefits afforded us and giving expression to our appreciation. Therefore, it is incumbent upon each Jewish citizen to participate in the democratic system which guards the freedom we enjoy. The most fundamental responsibility incumbent on each individual is to.. .vote. ... By this we can express our appreciation and contribute to the security of our community.”

This letter gives expression to the exilic consciousness as few others do. It is also noteworthy for what it doesn’t say. Rav Moshe, who immigrated to the United States from Russia, never promoted the idea that the Jewish community should participate in the electoral process in order to elect politicians who would seek to impose Jewish norms and values upon the citizens of the United States. In fact, few in the religious community had such hubris.

1. R Moshe wrote that letter in right before the Reagan-Mondale election, it's clear based on the context that he was referring to Reagan, he was writing this in a non partisan way but was very clear who and what he meant.  This letter has been used for every insanity under the sun.  Supporting candidates who are trying to destroy this country morally, is not a hakaras hatov to America but a fulfillment of the pasuk (Mishlei 17)
13He who repays evil for good-evil will not depart from his house.יגמֵשִׁיב רָעָה תַּחַת טוֹבָה לֹא תָמיּשׁ תָמוּשׁ רָעָה מִבֵּיתוֹ:
2. Rav Moshe Feinstein did advocate the idea that the Jewish community should participate in the politics to impose Godly norms and values upon the citizens of the United States. This can be evidenced by the letter that he wrote urging all Jews to do everything in their power to stop the gay rights bill (which would of course include voting)
Rav Moshe's letter urging everyone to fight gay rights



3. Those norms and values were here before we got to this country people like you helped change them.  In fact if not a single Jews ever came to America the sad reality is this country would not have allowed same sex "marriage!


As G-d, speaking through the Prophet Yirmiyahu, exhorted Jews who were exiled to Babylon after the destruction of the First Temple: “Seek the peace of the city to which I have exiled you, and pray to G-d for its sake” (Yirmiyahu 29:7).

That's one of the main reasons why Jews are fighting against homosexuality precisely because we are seeking peace on America.  We know that God is fuming at America right now for allowing this avlah. Every single mekor in medrish agadah about same sex "marriage" is linked with the survival of the world.  Shalom by it's very definition can never include same sex "marriage".  The zchus of all those fighting this ruling may be the only thing that is preventing America from being destroyed.  That is why the pasuk before the one the so called rabbi quotes is about real marriages (The pasuk could have said the same point in a much less robust way).  To inform us that only a society that has normal marriages can classic ways of seeking peace be called seeking peace, but when they nullify that then new methods of seeking true peace must be called into action

6Take wives and beget sons and daughters, and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to men, and they shall bear sons and daughters, and multiply there and be not diminished.וקְחוּ נָשִׁים וְהוֹלִידוּ בָּנִים וּבָנוֹת וּקְחוּ לִבְנֵיכֶם נָשִׁים וְאֶת בְּנוֹתֵיכֶם תְּנוּ לַאֲנָשִׁים וְתֵלַדְנָה בָּנִים וּבָנוֹת וּרְבוּ שָׁם וְאַל תִּמְעָטוּ:

It is this approach that has sustained us throughout our long exile. It would be exceedingly tragic were we to abandon that protective shield on the eve of our Redemption.
If the entire Jewish people always followed the writers way there will never be a redemption, because we know from numerous sources that redemption will only come about through teshuva!

May we all protest Ami Magazine helping to bring about the redemption bimhara biyamanu

(note I changed the title in order to accurately reflect ami's position, they misunderstood what I was trying to say so I felt I owed it to them to clarify)

61 comments:

  1. I don't get your point. The Supreme Court already ruled that the law is that gay marriage is permissible. So you are fighting against what?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1. There are many more parts to the gay agenda.
      2. Supreme Court decisions have been reversed before and we have to push to undo that disastrous decision, even if a 100 years. The gay activists were trying to push to get to this point for more than 40 years before winning. If gay activists were as dedicated to homosexuality as Yitzchok Frankfurter was to the Torah, there would still be anti sodomy laws in every single state in the country!

      Delete
  2. I agree with Anon #1. Just like there is reason to fight against gay rights, because you can't fight an established fact, by the same logic you can't fight today against gay marriage. So while you engage in many pilpulim, they seem to be pilpul without lomdus or understanding.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Meant to say there is "no" reason...

    ReplyDelete
  4. where does ami pasken that there is a chiyuv to support gay marriage? and where does reb moshe zt"l say that it is our business what the goyim do? (he actually says the exact opposite in the letter you posted!!!) it is intolerant idiots like you who not only push away the geulah but help ensure that the court will never reverse itself. shame on you because you bring about all the toeivah in the united states.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I guess reading comprehension is not your thing, by any chance are you Satmar, or are you part of the YCT crowd?

      Delete
    2. Robert: Reb Moshe says that we have to voice our objections solely "to demonstrate that G-d's people loathe all that G-d abominates," not to change the ways of the goyim. You distort Reb Moshe to besmirch Rabbi Frankfurter. So I agree that you are the biggest abomination.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous, by defending this piece you show that you love toevah, are you also the author of the rest of this nonsense?

      I'm 99.999999999999999999999995 sure you either work for Ami or are gay, probably both!

      Delete
  5. Is this post supposed to be a joke? It is no less than apikorsus to disagree with your agenda to change the laws in the US? Which gadol gave his haskamah to this undertaking? Rav Chaim Kanievsky or Rav Shmuel Auerbach? Go Rabbi Frankfurter go! Valiant people like you are my personal heroes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Talmdai chachamim respond with torah objections to torah points, am haratzim respond with which gadol supports you.

      The fact that you picked to rabbis from Eretz Yisrol is and even bigger indicator of your ignorance, because a psak halacha on a unique situation in America, can't dealt with by rabbanim outside of America.

      Delete
    2. And which gedolim "inside America" say that one should fight a ruling of the Supreme Court? Get a real life, my friend.

      Delete
    3. And which gedolim "inside America" say that one should fight a ruling of the Supreme Court? Get a real life, my friend.

      Delete
  6. Mr Adler I think you should study what the poskim say in regards to our obligations to rebuke someone who clearly won't listen. In fact our Sages say that such rebuke is counter productive. So I agree with Anonymous at 7:45 AM, that irresponsible people like you trigger the types of rulings the Supreme Court recently issued.

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    Replies
    1. OK go look up the Ramah (he a big enough posek for you) in hilchos yom hakippurim (608)

      Delete
    2. I looked up the Ramah you cite. He says the exact same thing Rabbi Frankfurter stated, that one is not obligated to rebuke someone when he won't accept the rebuke. Are you playing with me?

      Delete
    3. you clearly didn't read the entire ramah, or your playing dumb, either way you are to stupid or corrupt to fight with any longer.

      Delete
  7. Thankfully at least someone is saying this! Thanks, Ami, for focusing us back on the real issues for the community and not this mishegas.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. A mishgas indeed. Adler tell us one gadol in the entire world who dedicated his life and energy trying to overturn the laws of where he lived because they were against the Torah. Ami is the most authentic Torah voice and I wish them well.

      Delete
  8. Ami always focused on the real issues, how to have our askonim steal as much money from the government as possible for their own pockets.

    ReplyDelete
  9. " the real issues" - God and his commandments are not important. As long as the $ is flowing..... and KJ can expand... these are the REAL ISSUES.




    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Avraham, you got a real estate career. Why do you need to start up with Satmar and Ami? I don't get it.

      Delete
  10. The issue really isn't one publication. What we should focus on is how a bunch of shtetel loonies think they will overturn a Supreme Court ruling. It would make a great movie--a comedy actually.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. from Satmarville you are criticizing me for living in a shtetel?

      Delete
  11. Abe Sharaby: What do you suggest Torah Jews should do to fight the Supreme Court ruling? Are you advocating violence? I doubt that because if you would you wouldn't be blogging under your own name, unless of course you are blogging with the name of your enemy. I'm curious what you propose.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Guys like Abraham Sharaby, Heshy Friedman, Robert Adlers of this world are rebels without a real cause, because there is no cause after the Supreme Court had spoken. All they can do is make noise in the community and online. But nobody really gives a hoot what these know-it-alls think, because at the end of the day these are patsies who have no following and need to hire Mexicans to hold signs at parades, and make a major chilul Hashem--lsheim Shomayim.

      Delete
    2. הוֹי הָאֹמְרִים לָרַע טוֹב וְלַטּוֹב רָע שָׂמִים חֹשֶׁךְ לְאוֹר וְאוֹר לְחֹשֶׁךְ שָׂמִים מַר לְמָתוֹק וּמָתוֹק לְמָר

      I'm thought hiring Mexicans was a bad idea but it certainly was not a major chilul Hashem.

      This Ami magazine article is major chilul Hashem--lsheim $$$$$$$$$$$$

      Delete
  12. How does KJ get into this discussion?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Is some bogger trying to ban another publication he disagrees with? This is starting to become hysterical.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I got this weird feeling that Robert Adler, Abe Sharaby, Yehuda Levin, Heshy Friedman, are closeted homosexuals who are trying to prove that they're straight. Otherwise it makes no sense to spend your life spewing opposition to a law that is already on the books. And no, I disagree that these four guys are advocating violence. They're white gloved wimps who don't know how to hold up a bat.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I wonder if you would also say that Moshe Rabanu was one also?

      Delete
  15. The Torah tells us that Egyptians engaged in abdominal behavior. Yet the Torah never tells us that Moshe was troubled even once by that. All that preoccupied him was that Pharaoh let the Jews leave so that they may worship freely G-d. That should teach us a thing or two about you, Sharaby, and the others.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Your question is also your answer, Jews had no political power in Egypt, here 3 Jewish judges inflicted their anti Torah view on the whole country.

      Delete
    2. So what does that got to do with us who like Moshe cannot do anything to change that? You should consult a gadol because your reasoning is a very flawed one.
      You also write things in the name of people, including Reb Moshe and Rabbi Frankfurter, that they never said. Then you ask the community to follow your advice. You are either dyslexic or conniving because you are gay.

      Delete
  16. Annon at 2:57 AM is wrong in calling you and Sharaby gay. As you are wrong in accusing your opponents of being gay. I don't think these types of accusations are becoming for Torah Jews. I also know Sharaby to be married and has a baby, as there is a picture of him online. So I don't think you guys should get personal. It serves no purpose.

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  17. The reason I did that, was I was trying to get him to admit being part of Ami Magazine

    ReplyDelete
  18. Wondering what motivates guys like you and Sharaby to take on a losing cause and in the process to pick a fight with other upstanding Jews. Avraham Sharaby is my neighbor in Lakewood and he seems like a rational guy. Is there anything more irrational than trying to fight the Supreme Court of the United States? You can both be end up in jail if you so much as incite violence against Supreme Court justices. I think that you and him should pick a more rational cause. Thanks for listening.

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  19. As someone who is involved in criminal defense, I would strongly urge you both to lower the volume of your attacks against the Supreme Court and Ami Magazine. If something gets out of hand or if someone decides to take action based upon your incitement it can be viewed among other things as "obstruction of justice."

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  20. this site probably qualifies as the most obnoxious on the internet, shame on you sharaby and adler

    ReplyDelete
  21. A criminally insane Orthodox Jew stabbed a gay person in Jerusalem. Is he part of your group? Or perhaps he is you, Adler or Sharaby?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Avraham Sharaby is a nice BMG guy with a decent voice. I have no idea how he got himself involved in this anti-gay mushegas.

      Delete
    2. I once heard Sharaby sing at a wedding. He sounded like a sissy. Which may explain it.

      Delete
  22. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h0FjSrte3yo/VbpenHvwq4I/AAAAAAAALK0/MzSfAVdI5iM/s1600/gay.jpg

    Is that you Adler?

    ReplyDelete
  23. This is some extremist Jewish anti-gay site?

    ReplyDelete
  24. G-d bless the truth tellersAugust 1, 2015 at 11:42 PM

    Bravo Mr. Adler for calling out R. Frankfurter on this matter.

    It is sad that an intelligent man like Frankfurter wants to join the shtreimel Ma Yofis chorus of people like Ezra Friedlander, who regularly stand ready to flatter extreme liberals who are doing so much damage. People like them, who convey an image of pride in Yiddishkeit by their dress and appearance, actually have an inferiority complex about it evidently.

    Keep up the good work!

    ReplyDelete
  25. Rabbi Frankfurter stated that it's a done deal--you can't fight City Hall, or the Supreme Court. Does anyone get the argument here? Because I don't, and I'm writing an article about this for a non-Jewish publication. Would very much appreciate your insight/input. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous at 5:53 PM: If you're looking for insight/input you're in the wrong place. This is a site that seeks to make arguments for arguments sake. It's like going to a bad mother-in-law, who is always looking to pick a fight when none exists. Get the gist?

      Delete
    2. please be more specific with your inquiry, are you asking me to explain Ami, or how you can fight the supreme court?

      these are 2 different questions.

      Delete
    3. "Would very much appreciate your insight/input"

      please email me for a more thorough discussion because I can only really give roshi prakim on a comments section, and I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

      Delete
    4. Here are my "specific" questions. When a magazine states that there is nothing to do after the Supreme Court's ruling, how does that differ from what you say? Are you and Sharaby advocating militancy against the Justices or gay people similar to what the Orthodox Jew did at the gay parade in Jerusalem?

      Delete
    5. PS. I actually know Avraham Sharaby. He sang at my friend's Chupah. I'm surprised that he's so militant about gays. He seemed like a rather timid guy.

      Delete
    6. What the guy did in Israel is not productive, it has already backfired and unfortunately may actually guarantee that same sex "marriage" may happen in Israel. It failed by only 11 votes the same week that the stabber was let out of jail.


      What I'm advocating is to vote, lobby, use social media, and basically have the Jewish community become the leading fighters against this anti God movement.

      The gay community has won for many reasons but the primary reason is because on like majority of Orthodox Jews they care about homosexuality (and fighting god). All politicians are afraid of them because they put their money and more importantly their votes where the mouths are.
      To illustrate

      The reason why Williamsburg's politicians all supported homosexual laws going back to the 70's even when majority of the districts opposed these laws, was because the gays in the district voted against god based on homosexuality and Satmar voted voted against god based on money, or worse.

      If the Jewish community would be represented only by people who not only vote against the gay agenda, but sponsor laws against the gay agenda. It's possible to start a chain reaction that gets non jewish believers in God to also follow suit.

      Unconstitutional Supreme court decisions should not be followed by the states. People like Hikind, Felder, Goldfeder etc. must sponsor many pro torah bills every year and actually try and build support for them. If they fail to do so we have to do what they gays do and put up candidates to run against them, and force them to. The gay movement didn't get the political support to do what they did in 1 night, it took them many years, with a major push from apikorsim like Satmar (many non Jews have the same position as Satmar).

      The short answer to the question how such a small minority took over this country is that the opposition let them. It took many years to accomplish but they successfully got something passed that 75 years ago would have been so crazy you would have been put in a mental institution for even suggesting it.

      There are way more religious people in America today opposed to same sex "marriage" then there was in the early 70's when they publicly began pushing for it. Just like they did it, so can we, (and in less time if we are even half as dedicated as they were) but only if we place god above some askon's pocket!

      Supreme court rulings can be overturned, amended, or ignored. It's our job to try and make sure there is a law that will force one of those 3 options.

      Delete
    7. If your interested in Sharabi's opinion you should ask him, because I might have met him once.

      Delete
  26. Very interesting--because what you are saying of course makes no legal or common sense. I'm not trying to be facetious but this is one of the most outlandish and nonsensical arguments I've ever heard. You are obviously ignorant about constitutional law, as you probably had only a yeshiva education. One cannot, overturn, amend or ignore a Supreme Court ruling, unless they're smoking something very strong. I thank you though for sharing your perspective and I hope to share it with others.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. One CAN, overturn, amend or ignore a Supreme Court ruling, it will just take time and effort

      It's happened numerous of times in American history (here's a sampling of overruled decisions)
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_decisions

      The gay movement has done this many times
      Lawrence v. Texas, (2003) overruled Bowers v. Hardwick (1986)
      Obergefell v. Hodges (2015) overruled Baker v. Nelson (1972)

      If a person similar to Frankfurter YMS would have written a piece in the gay media advocating that "to fight the supreme court decision was treason" then not only would the gay movement never overturn these decisions but they would have become extinct.

      Unfortunately they fought back and later reversed these decisions with new justices, and a lot of change on the local and state and federal levels first.

      There are many ways changes can be done over time, but only if people actually care. More then that fighting the good fight will prevent future decent. Following reshaim gimurim like Frankfurter for decaded is why the supreme court ruled the way they did.

      Nullification is also possible, while courts obviously reject Nullification, politically it would still work, cause courts only enforcement power comes through the executive branch and if a state like Texas would refuse to allow those marriages, Obama would have to do something like send in the National guard to force Texas to "marry people". In today's political climate sending in the National guard will backfire.

      I'm sure you heard this famous story about the Netziv
      As a young student, he struggled and failed to keep up
      with his early yeshiva studies. At one point, his school’s dean approached
      his parents about possibly seeking out an alternative path for the youngster.
      He could not seem to accommodate himself to Yeshiva learning.
      The dean suggested that the Berlins perhaps seek an apprenticeship
      for young Naphtali. The Netziv, hearing this conversation from his room,
      burst through the doors begging his parents and the dean for the opportunity
      to prove himself a worthy Yeshiva student.
      Rabbi Berlin himself pointed to the inherent lessons within this story.
      Had he heeded the dean’s advice, he might have emerged a successful
      businessman, committed to his religion and charitable. However, a great
      spiritual potential might have been lost. After 120 years, he might have
      been brought before the heavenly court as a committed Jew. However,
      when they asked for his commentaries and works, he would have stood
      speechless. They would have pointed to the lost spiritual potential that
      existed.


      Now imagine after 120 when you get judged and you are asked how come you allowed same sex "marriage", and you said it was the law of the land and there is nothing that could be done, and if god happens to show you a way it could have changed, how would you respond?

      Delete
    2. Rabbi Frankfurter was on the Just Enough Heshy radio program tonight. You got to hand it to him, he's smart and articulate. And if you want to spend the rest of your life promoting this nonsense that's your own choice, just don't blame G-d if you one day discover that your life doesn't add up to anything. I will say that you and Avraham Sharaby need to have your screws examined.

      Delete
  27. Please send Sharaby my regards (I'm Melissa N.) and tell him to stay out of trouble. He's young and he doesn't want to sit in prison for treason.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Are all Orthodox Jews as dumb as this fellow Adler? He and his friends plan to overturn the Supreme Court decision!! I thought I heard them all.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I heard from the grapevine that Avraham Sharaby from Lakewood is under investigation for criminal activities.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I heard from the horse's mouth that a so called Orthodox Jew, masured another Jew for opposing same sex "marriage"

      Delete
  30. Mr. Adler can you please explain how you "oppose" same sex marriage and what you plan to do to stop it? Thank you.

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  31. With regard to the outrageous claim about how Judaism views the "law of the land," see this essay: https://www.scribd.com/doc/163928929/The-Law-of-the-Land

    ReplyDelete