By "Rabbi" Yitzchok Frankfurter of Ami Magazine? (with our editorial in highlights)
The recent ruling of the United States Supreme Court, which not only legitimizes abominable behavior but also impinges upon freedom of conscience and religion, has triggered much foreboding among devout people.
So this is a evil decision and one that can put Jews in danger of being persecuted against for following the Torah!
Our country was founded upon the Constitution the allegiance of Americans (after God of course) must always be first and foremost to the Constitution, not the President, Supreme Court, or Congress. To not accept the 10th amendment which gives marriage exclusively to the states, is to spit in the face of our host country. It's bad enough that we had 3 Jewish judges on the court who rebeled against America by interpreting the Constitution against all it's framers, but we as loyal American Jews should not join the rebellion of against America (and worse God) !
That the Constitution has also made it permissible to engage in idol worship as well as almost every deviant behavior under the sun is one of its unfortunate fallouts.
The Constitution allows states to ban homosexual behavior, which is why all states banned homosexual behavior for much of this nation's history. The supreme court ruled less then 15 years ago that homosexual behavior is a "constitutional right", in another decsion that goes against the Constitution
It is widely held that there is no halachic obligation to dissuade a non-Jew from transgressing any one of the seven commandments that are binding on Noahides.
None of the commandments designed to deter a Jew from sinning (except for the prohibition of “lifnei iveir,” where one assists a Noahide to violate a Noahide law) is generally thought to apply to Noahides.
Voting for candidates that support breaking the sheva mitzvos is lifnay iver. Furthermore many if not most poskim hold there is lifnei dilinfay for Benay Noach, meaning that voting for these candidates have a tremendous number of averas in 1 second. Believe it or not many Jews live America and are going to sin based on these laws (including those who consider themselves Orthodox). As a side note if God decides to punish America because of these laws, we will also be punished (oy lirasha, oy lishchana).
We must always remember the reason that God Choose Avraham is precisely because he stood up to the entire world and fought for God's Law, against all odds! If he was living today he would have said (and acted on such) that Jews should have been the leading advocates against homosexuality in general and especially "marriage".
Even Noach who was held accountable for not fighting against the world, would have never written anything as bad as this article (if he did so he would never even been called tzadik).
We know from Vayikra Rabbah (Achrai Mos) that gay and lesbian "Weddings" are what caused the mabul. (This is why the rainbow flag is so apropos)
Noach was punished because he didn't try to change his generation, Avraham was rewarded because he tried and did change his.
According to the psak of the Rambam (his definition of the mitzva of Din) every single Ben Noach in America is supposed to vote against pro LGBT politicians.
If that is the basic standard for non jews, the Jewish community must go way above and beyond that.
The fact that the Jewish community is not seen by the entire world, as the leading opponents of this movement, is in itself an unfortunate statement of how low we have fallen in our galus.
We are supposed to be Benay Avraham, Even the Orthodox Community is failing the responsibilities to act in a way that would be proper for a Benay Noach
Thus there is no obligation of tochachah (rebuke) with regard to a non-Jew who sins, no notion of areivus that compels collective responsibility.
And most certainly, when there is no prospect of that person, even a Jew, accepting the rebuke, halachah considers it counterproductive to chastise him.
This does not mean that the framers of the Constitution were secular-minded people. Benjamin Franklin, a prominent leader at the Constitutional Convention, stated that he had “so much faith in the general government of the world by Providence that [he could] hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent and beneficent Ruler, in whom all inferior spirits live and move and have their being.”
Yet ironically, that “omnipotent, omnipresent and beneficent Ruler” conceived the Constitution without ever openly revealing Himself in it—and we should be grateful to Him for that. Other wise, any religious worship aside from Christianity might eventually have been outlawed or curtailed.
Viewing the Constitution that affords them the freedom to be Jews almost as if it were a Jewish document, they are highly disturbed when the Supreme Court justices dare to interpret the Constitution from a different perspective, i.e., as if it were religiously neutral.
As G-d, speaking through the Prophet Yirmiyahu, exhorted Jews who were exiled to Babylon after the destruction of the First Temple: “Seek the peace of the city to which I have exiled you, and pray to G-d for its sake” (Yirmiyahu 29:7).
That's one of the main reasons why Jews are fighting against homosexuality precisely because we are seeking peace on America. We know that God is fuming at America right now for allowing this avlah. Every single mekor in medrish agadah about same sex "marriage" is linked with the survival of the world. Shalom by it's very definition can never include same sex "marriage". The zchus of all those fighting this ruling may be the only thing that is preventing America from being destroyed. That is why the pasuk before the one the so called rabbi quotes is about real marriages (The pasuk could have said the same point in a much less robust way). To inform us that only a society that has normal marriages can classic ways of seeking peace be called seeking peace, but when they nullify that then new methods of seeking true peace must be called into action
It is this approach that has sustained us throughout our long exile. It would be exceedingly tragic were we to abandon that protective shield on the eve of our Redemption.
In the Orthodox Jewish community, it left the commentators either mute or uncharacteristically explicit in their analyses and condemnation. While some have mostly chosen to ignore the topic, others have been far from quiet. Time-honored traditions such as employing lashon nekiyah (clean speech) to avoid indelicate formulations (see Pesachim 3b), especially in front of impressionable children,
The gemara in psachim is very clear that sometime you are required to not use a lashon nekiyah, especially if someone may make a mistake in halacha based on using less clear language, kal vechomer in our case where not talking about it leads one to do millions of averahs
as well as respect for our host country, were set aside and replaced by unusually shrill denunciations of the Court for the immorality and irrationality of the justices’ reasoning.
It's important to stress that not a single person (of the 1000's) who wrote and voted on the 14th amendment, would agree with the court's interpretation of the 14th amendment!
Paradoxically, the United States Constitution, which is the first“G-dless” constitution in history, having made no mention of G-d or any dominant religion, is what has enabled G-dliness to flourish in
this country.
Paradoxically, the United States Constitution, which is the first“G-dless” constitution in history, having made no mention of G-d or any dominant religion, is what has enabled G-dliness to flourish in
this country.
But the founding document of this nation the Declaration of Independence does, and using a term that clearly goes against the very concept of same sex "marriage".
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation
Declaration of Independence
Furthermore one of the main influences of the Constitution, President John Adams makes it very clear that he believes that the Constitution can only function in a religious environment!
While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion.
Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Oaths in this country are as yet universally considered as sacred obligations. That which you have taken, and so solemnly repeated on that venerable ground, is an ample pledge of your sincerity and devotion to your country and its government.
- Letter to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, 11 October 1798, in Revolutionary Services and Civil Life of General William Hull (New York, 1848)
Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, They may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty. They will only exchange Tyrants and Tyrannies.
- Letter to Zabdiel Adams (21 June 1776)
That the Constitution has also made it permissible to engage in idol worship as well as almost every deviant behavior under the sun is one of its unfortunate fallouts.
The Constitution allows states to ban homosexual behavior, which is why all states banned homosexual behavior for much of this nation's history. The supreme court ruled less then 15 years ago that homosexual behavior is a "constitutional right", in another decsion that goes against the Constitution
Still, Orthodox Jews have always thanked G-d for the strict wall of separation between church and state the Constitution erected—and with valid reason.
Would you say that regarding for $$$$ for Yeshivas?
because that interpretation at least has some Constitutional basis. Furthermore there are purely secular reasons to be against homosexuality, which is why even the atheistic USSR still was against homosexuality.
a few secular reason to be against homosexuality
- In 2013, 75% of the reported P&S syphilis cases were among men who have sex with men
- In 2013, in the United States, gay and bisexual men accounted for 81% (30,689) of the 37,887 estimated HIV diagnoses among all males aged 13 years and older.
- Since sheshes yimai birashis 0.00000000etc% of same sex couples had a child together
It is widely held that there is no halachic obligation to dissuade a non-Jew from transgressing any one of the seven commandments that are binding on Noahides.
The Tosfos YT strongly thinks there is based on the words of the Rambam
תוספות יום טוב מסכת אבות פרק ג משנה יד
חביב אדם שנברא בצלם חבה יתירה וכו' שנאמר בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם - פירש"יחביב אדם שנברא בצלם. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו. ע"כ. ובכל אדם אמרר"ע. וכמו שהוא הראיה שממנו הביא שהוא נאמר לבני נח לא לבני ישראל לבדםורצה ר"ע לזכות את כל אדם אף לבני נח. ומאמר מלא אמר הרמב"ם בפ"ח מהלכותמלכים [הלכה י']. וז"ל צוה משה רבינו ע"ה מפי הגבורה לכוף את כל באי העולםלקבל מצות שנצטוו בני נח. וכל מי שלא יקבל יהרג והמקבל אותם הוא הנקרא גרתושב בכ"מ וכו' כל המקבל שבע מצות ונזהר לעשותן. הרי זה מחסידי אומות העולםויש לו חלק לעוה"ב. והוא שיקבל אותן ויעשה אותן. מפני שצוה בהן הקדוש ברוךהוא בתורה. והודיענו ע"י מרע"ה שבני נח מקודם נצטוו בהן. אבל אם עשאן מפניהכרע הדעת אין זה גר תושב ואינו מחסידי אומות העולם. ולא [צ"ל אלא]מחכמיהם. עכ"ל. ומעתה אני תמה למה זה רחקה הדרך מן המפרשים ולא רצו ללכת בהלפרש דברי ר"ע שאמר מאמרו כלפי כל אדם כי אם לישראל בלבד. ונסמכו במאמרםז"ל אתם קרויים אדם וכו' והרי זה דרש על דרש. ובזה נכנסו בדוחק ענין הצלם.ובפי' הכתוב שהביא לראיה. אבל בעיני זו הדרך דרך סלולה ומרווחת כי בא ר"עלהיישיר לכל באי עולם כאשר נצטוינו מפי מרע"ה כדברי הרמב"ם. ואם בכפיית חרבהרג ואבדן נצטוינו כ"ש בכפיית דברים. להמשיך לבם אל רצון קונם וחפץ צורם.יזכרם לטובה. ושהם חביבים שנבראו בצלם להורות נתן בלבם. כי זאת תורת האדםלעשות חוקי אלהים ומשפטיו מצד אשר הוא צוה כדברי הרמב"ם דהואיל שחבבו לבראובצלמו. לכן מוטל עליו לעשות רצון קונו כפירש"י. והשתא אתי שפיר דנקט להךקרא. אף על פי שיש כמה מקראות הקודמים אליו שנאמר נעשה אדם בצלמנו. אבל זההמקרא הוא שנאמר גבי המצות שנצטוו בהם. לכך הביא לזה הכתוב שכן אמרו הש"יבטעם המצוה אשר צוה אותם כי בצלם אלהים עשה את האדם ולבני נח נאמר הכתוב.ולבני נח אמר ר"ע דבריו הללו. ואתי נמי שפיר שאמר שנברא בצלם. וחסר הנסמךשהוא אלהים הנאמר בכתוב. ואילו גבי בנים אמר שנקראו בנים למקום. והיינוטעמא שזו ג"כ מדברי התוכחה להוכיחם ולומר שהם נבראו בצלם ובאיזה צלם נבראובצלם אלהים כאומר שהבריאה היתה בצלם אלהים אבל הואיל ואינם מקיימים מצותיוואף על פי שאם מקיימים אינם מקיימים מפני אשר צוה אותם אלהים. הנה הם חסריםבאמת מידיעת אלהים והכתוב שאומר בצלם אלהים עשה לומר שכן נבראו כלומר שהיאהיתה כונת הבריאה באדם שיהא לו השגה שכלית מגעת לידיעת אלהים. אבל לפישבאמת לא ידעו ולא יבינו ובחשיכה יתהלכו ולא יצאה הכונה אל הפועל מן הראוישיאמר שנבראו בצלם. ולא בצלם אלהים אחרי שהכונה שהיא השגת אלהים לא נשלמה.ואין בהם אלא הכנה בלבד. ואותה ראוי להקרא צלם בלתי הנסמך שהוא אלהים. זהנראה לי בפי' מאמר ר"ע. ולפי זה מדוקדק יפה המשנה שאחר זו הכל צפוי וכו'כמו שאבאר שם בס"ד. ועוד שגם בזה יש ג"כ חבה יתירה נודעת בישראל שאע"פ שכברחבבם כמו לכל אדם בצלם אלהים אשר עשהו בו. אעפ"כ לא זז מחבבן עוד ביתר שאתויתר עז שנקראו בנים למקום. וזה שאת ומעלה יתירה. ובכלי חמדה היא התורה אשרנתן להם. וזהו עוז. כענין שנאמר (תהלים כ"ט) ה' עוז לעמו יתן. [שדרשוהו ז"לבפרק פרת חטאת [בזבחים דף קט"ז] על התורה]:שנאמר בנים אתם לה' אלהיכם - ולא הביא מקרא (שמות ד') בני בכורי ישראל שהואקודם. לפי שאותו מקרא אפשר לפרשו על אותו הדור בלבד שרצה להוציאם ממצרים הםשחבבם להוציאם ממצרים וקראם בני. ומנלן לדורות הבאים. לכך הביא זה המקרא.שנאמר אצל מצות שנצטוינו בה לדורי דורות עד עולם חוק ולא יעבור לא תתגודדווגו' שהם חובות הגוף הנוהגים בכל מקום ובכל דור ודור. וקראם בנים. כך נ"ל.ובמדרש שמואל פי' בשם החסיד ז"ל שלכך הביא זה המקרא לפי שבו הודיע לישראלבעצמם שהם בנים. כמ"ש בנים אתם וגו'. וכן לעיל בצלם אלהים עשה את האדםהודיע לבני האדם בעצמם. וכן לקמן בלקח טוב נתתי לכם ע"כ. וזה יצדק לפי'הרמב"ם בחבה יתירה נודעת. אבל לפי' הר"ב דלא דייק נודעת להם. אלא נודעתכלומר גלויה לכל. אין הראיה מצד שנאמר להם אלא שנגלה ומפורסם לכל באי עולםיצדק יותר מה שפירשתי:
None of the commandments designed to deter a Jew from sinning (except for the prohibition of “lifnei iveir,” where one assists a Noahide to violate a Noahide law) is generally thought to apply to Noahides.
Voting for candidates that support breaking the sheva mitzvos is lifnay iver. Furthermore many if not most poskim hold there is lifnei dilinfay for Benay Noach, meaning that voting for these candidates have a tremendous number of averas in 1 second. Believe it or not many Jews live America and are going to sin based on these laws (including those who consider themselves Orthodox). As a side note if God decides to punish America because of these laws, we will also be punished (oy lirasha, oy lishchana).
The beis hamikdash was destroyed because we did not go lifnim mishuras hadin. Based on many chazals it's clear that Jews are judged based on the behaviors of goyim when we can have influence. In fact as the Radak writes in Yeshaya the reason we are called a Ohr Ligoyim is precisely because we should try and get the whole world to follow the 7 mitzvos and act in a proper matter.
Even Noach who was held accountable for not fighting against the world, would have never written anything as bad as this article (if he did so he would never even been called tzadik).
We know from Vayikra Rabbah (Achrai Mos) that gay and lesbian "Weddings" are what caused the mabul. (This is why the rainbow flag is so apropos)
Noach was punished because he didn't try to change his generation, Avraham was rewarded because he tried and did change his.
According to the psak of the Rambam (his definition of the mitzva of Din) every single Ben Noach in America is supposed to vote against pro LGBT politicians.
If that is the basic standard for non jews, the Jewish community must go way above and beyond that.
The fact that the Jewish community is not seen by the entire world, as the leading opponents of this movement, is in itself an unfortunate statement of how low we have fallen in our galus.
We are supposed to be Benay Avraham, Even the Orthodox Community is failing the responsibilities to act in a way that would be proper for a Benay Noach
Thus there is no obligation of tochachah (rebuke) with regard to a non-Jew who sins, no notion of areivus that compels collective responsibility.
But there is still a notion, The fact that 2 out of 12 of the trey asar nevim were "exclusively" for non jews should be proof enough!
And most certainly, when there is no prospect of that person, even a Jew, accepting the rebuke, halachah considers it counterproductive to chastise him.
This is only true in limited cases, Furthermore there is a difference between giving rebuke and trying to change laws
This does not mean that the framers of the Constitution were secular-minded people. Benjamin Franklin, a prominent leader at the Constitutional Convention, stated that he had “so much faith in the general government of the world by Providence that [he could] hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent and beneficent Ruler, in whom all inferior spirits live and move and have their being.”
Yet ironically, that “omnipotent, omnipresent and beneficent Ruler” conceived the Constitution without ever openly revealing Himself in it—and we should be grateful to Him for that. Other wise, any religious worship aside from Christianity might eventually have been outlawed or curtailed.
Only in your imagination!
The animated responses of a number of Orthodox commentators to the Supreme Court ruling reveal that the contemporary exilic consciousness in America, which does not share features of the old paradigm such as persecution, exclusion and alienation, is slowly starting to fade even among the devout. This repudiation of the exile mentality permeates the ferocious verbal attacks against our host country.
The animated responses of a number of Orthodox commentators to the Supreme Court ruling reveal that the contemporary exilic consciousness in America, which does not share features of the old paradigm such as persecution, exclusion and alienation, is slowly starting to fade even among the devout. This repudiation of the exile mentality permeates the ferocious verbal attacks against our host country.
The attacks were not against our host country but the 5 members of the Supreme Court of which majority of them were Jewish. Those justices overruled millions of voters throughout the country, who chose to follow God's laws as opposed to the so called "rabbi".
Viewing the Constitution that affords them the freedom to be Jews almost as if it were a Jewish document, they are highly disturbed when the Supreme Court justices dare to interpret the Constitution from a different perspective, i.e., as if it were religiously neutral.
For the 1st hundred years no one, including the writers ever dreamt that the 14th amendment meant "that 2 men have the right to "marry" each other. The only way to get that "law" into the constitution would be to make a drasha, in fact the following dissent reads very well about this decision if you change Due Process to Equality.
A Talmudic maxim instructs with respect to the Scripture: "Turn it over, and turn it over, for all is therein." The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Aboth, Ch. V, Mishnah 22 (I. Epstein ed. 1935). Divinely inspired text may contain the answers to all earthly questions, but the Due Process Clause most assuredly does not. The Court today continues its quixotic quest to right all wrongs and repair all imperfections through the Constitution. Alas, the quest cannot succeed--which is why some wrongs and imperfections have been called nonjusticiable. In the best of all possible worlds, should judges sometimes recuse even where the clear commands of our prior due process law do not require it? Undoubtedly. The relevant question, however, is whether we do more good than harm by seeking to correct this imperfection through expansion of our constitutional mandate in a manner ungoverned by any discernable rule. The answer is obvious.
- Anthony Scalia in CAPERTON ET AL. v. A. T. MASSEY COAL CO., INC.
Many years ago Rav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l, wrote a letter to encourage the Jewish community to participate in the democratic process and vote: “A fundamental principle of Judaism is hakams hatov, recognizing benefits afforded us and giving expression to our appreciation. Therefore, it is incumbent upon each Jewish citizen to participate in the democratic system which guards the freedom we enjoy. The most fundamental responsibility incumbent on each individual is to.. .vote. ... By this we can express our appreciation and contribute to the security of our community.”
This letter gives expression to the exilic consciousness as few others do. It is also noteworthy for what it doesn’t say. Rav Moshe, who immigrated to the United States from Russia, never promoted the idea that the Jewish community should participate in the electoral process in order to elect politicians who would seek to impose Jewish norms and values upon the citizens of the United States. In fact, few in the religious community had such hubris.
This letter gives expression to the exilic consciousness as few others do. It is also noteworthy for what it doesn’t say. Rav Moshe, who immigrated to the United States from Russia, never promoted the idea that the Jewish community should participate in the electoral process in order to elect politicians who would seek to impose Jewish norms and values upon the citizens of the United States. In fact, few in the religious community had such hubris.
1. R Moshe wrote that letter in right before the Reagan-Mondale election, it's clear based on the context that he was referring to Reagan, he was writing this in a non partisan way but was very clear who and what he meant. This letter has been used for every insanity under the sun. Supporting candidates who are trying to destroy this country morally, is not a hakaras hatov to America but a fulfillment of the pasuk (Mishlei 17)
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2. Rav Moshe Feinstein did advocate the idea that the Jewish community should participate in the politics to impose Godly norms and values upon the citizens of the United States. This can be evidenced by the letter that he wrote urging all Jews to do everything in their power to stop the gay rights bill (which would of course include voting)
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| Rav Moshe's letter urging everyone to fight gay rights |
3. Those norms and values were here before we got to this country people like you helped change them. In fact if not a single Jews ever came to America the sad reality is this country would not have allowed same sex "marriage!
As G-d, speaking through the Prophet Yirmiyahu, exhorted Jews who were exiled to Babylon after the destruction of the First Temple: “Seek the peace of the city to which I have exiled you, and pray to G-d for its sake” (Yirmiyahu 29:7).
That's one of the main reasons why Jews are fighting against homosexuality precisely because we are seeking peace on America. We know that God is fuming at America right now for allowing this avlah. Every single mekor in medrish agadah about same sex "marriage" is linked with the survival of the world. Shalom by it's very definition can never include same sex "marriage". The zchus of all those fighting this ruling may be the only thing that is preventing America from being destroyed. That is why the pasuk before the one the so called rabbi quotes is about real marriages (The pasuk could have said the same point in a much less robust way). To inform us that only a society that has normal marriages can classic ways of seeking peace be called seeking peace, but when they nullify that then new methods of seeking true peace must be called into action
| 6Take wives and beget sons and daughters, and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to men, and they shall bear sons and daughters, and multiply there and be not diminished. | וקְחוּ נָשִׁים וְהוֹלִידוּ בָּנִים וּבָנוֹת וּקְחוּ לִבְנֵיכֶם נָשִׁים וְאֶת בְּנוֹתֵיכֶם תְּנוּ לַאֲנָשִׁים וְתֵלַדְנָה בָּנִים וּבָנוֹת וּרְבוּ שָׁם וְאַל תִּמְעָטוּ: | |
It is this approach that has sustained us throughout our long exile. It would be exceedingly tragic were we to abandon that protective shield on the eve of our Redemption.
If the entire Jewish people always followed the writers way there will never be a redemption, because we know from numerous sources that redemption will only come about through teshuva!
May we all protest Ami Magazine helping to bring about the redemption bimhara biyamanu
(note I changed the title in order to accurately reflect ami's position, they misunderstood what I was trying to say so I felt I owed it to them to clarify)
(note I changed the title in order to accurately reflect ami's position, they misunderstood what I was trying to say so I felt I owed it to them to clarify)
